Curse

arredondo · Jul 17, 2005, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

I beg to differ. Unlocking and item acquisition is niether PvE nor PvP, it's Roleplaying. Also, I find the skill aquisition system to be hugely popular not only in my guild, but specifically the players that come from other ORPG's like UO, WoW, SB, L2, DAoC, etc.

Maybe you want instant gratification in the ways of UAS, but many players who like to grind feel the opposite of you. There are players who do want to be rewarded for their time. They do want to feel like they accomplished something for their "Strategic planning, tactical execution and acheiving victory." Pretty much, that is why they play roleplaying games.

Let me go back to something you said earlier in the thread,
"A team with 100s of hours towards 'unlocking' in all classes is inherently at an advantage to someone who hasn't put 'unlocking' and PvE time in."
Of course, but you need to remember that there is a learning curve. A team with 100s of hours can beat a team with 1000s of hours played at any time.

And that is why I play GW's

That is incorrect. I'm not arguing with your opinion to personally like the current system, but it is factually correct to say that 'unlocking' is fundamentally against the core concepts of fair competition in ANY "PvP" activity (literally Player vs. Player). It works well as an adventure play mechanic (i.e. PvE), and you may personally like how they put it in as a feature of GW PvP. But I'm not arguing preferences and instead establishing fact... competition is all about the rules allowing all participants a fair chance at winning with no favortism towards the "grinder" based on hours played.

Competition is all about skill and the fact that you haven't 'unlocked' the defenses needed to protect you against an Air Spiking team you know you will face in a match 5 minutes from now, is a perfect example of losing out to a play mechanic that has nothing to do with your skillful abilities.

If it is so automatic a competitive gameplay element, why don't we see it implemented in tens of thousands of other 'player vs player' activities that have been around for hundreds of years? You don't have to wear slippers playing tennis until you 'unlock' a pair of tennis shoes based on first winning fifty matches. You don't start a round of Battleship using 3/5 game pieces until you've first won 100 games to unlock the last two. You don't start off in a Street Fighter match being able to only use two "skills" (i.e. special moves) until you've gotten through 150 hours of matches first to unlock the rest. You don't start off with an 'unlocked' Desert Eagle in Counter Strike until you've first beaten Half Life AND gotten 100 headshots with your USP. Why is this? Because starting with any kind of rule mandated advantage/disadvantage in accessing legal gameplay options is fundamentally anti-competition. It's really the most basic rule of fair play that there is.

Steady progression towards goals, item acquisition...these are PvE play mechanics in any adventure game. Strategic planning with all options the opponent has and tactically executing well as a team towards acheiving victory over an opponent... that's a PvP play mechanic in any competitive game. As of now, forced PvP play mechanics (competition) are virtually absent from PvE. You don't have to win 100 PvP matches in order to access new areas, quests, and missions.

It'll be nice one day if the PvP side received the same consideration for those who do not wish to participate in 100s of hours in PvE and 'unlocking' activities. Again, you may LIKE the current system as it is now. That's an opinion that I can't prove is wrong. However I would respectfully disagree based on the fact that it is a diservice to those who desire purely skillful competition, as in any other competitive activity. I would also not want to force PvP play mechanics into PvE in order to access new goals and quests, so at least I'm only asking for fair consistency.

Xoduz · Jul 18, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by arredondon

It works well as an adventure play mechanic (i.e. PvE), and you may personally like how they put it in as a feature of GW PvP. But I'm not arguing preferences and instead establishing fact... competition is all about the rules allowing all participants a fair chance at winning with no favortism towards the "grinder" based on hours played.

If it is so automatic a competitive gameplay element, why don't we see it implemented in tens of thousands of other 'player vs player' activities that have been around for hundreds of years? You don't have to wear slippers playing tennis until you 'unlock' a pair of tennis shoes based on first winning fifty matches. .

But that is where you are wrong. You are only taking a small portion of what it means to be in competitive sports and using to prove an in-game correlation.

First off competitive sports are actually unfair.

You are right in the fact that the rules allow all participants a fair chance at winning. In fact, GW has rules that allows all participants a fair chance ~ rule 1: 8 skills each. rule 2: 8 members each.

but there is always favortism towards the player with more hours played. What do Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong and Peyton Manning all have in common? They practice. Actually, they practice all the damn time. And they have praticed and played their respective game for years.

And guess what, when you first log into GW to play PvP, your not Michael Jordan. Your not Andrew Bogut, your not OJ Mayo, your not even <insert random middle school player here>. Your the little kid on the corner with the Nerf bat before his first game of T-ball.

The problem with your argument is that you say that a player with 0 hours is going to need to understand how to counteract Air Spike dmg. They not only aren't going to know what is it, they might not even know what skill to use to couteract it. Nor is that little kid with the nerf ball going to know what a suicide squeeze means, or how to do it.

Your not going to have all the skills of Derek Jeter either. Your not going to know how to catch. You have to learn that. That's a few hours. Your not going to know how to throw to homeplate. Your gonna have to learn that as well. Your going to have to learn to put the bat on the ball. Thats more hours. 15 years down the road, thousands of hours later, you could be as good as Derek Jeter.

Thankfully, you don't need 15 years to reach a competitive level in GW. All you really need is a 100 hours or so, and your competitive. After that, the playing field is level.

But hey, if you want to continue with the Real World comparisons, why stop there? In real life you also have to deal with things like injuries, earning bonus's, and eligibility. So, I think the next time your character get's hit by spike dmg, your going to be placed on the DL for a month, barring a good rehab.

So I guess what I have to say is, suck it up for the first 100 hours. You'll soon be looking at this from the completely other direction.

arredondo · Jul 18, 2005, 02:51 AM // 02:51

There are TWO influences in how one is able to fully perform in any competitive activity before a match begins. The influence of the rules of that particular activity and the influence of "real life" outside of the rules.

As I've mentioned many times, there are no competitive activities that diminish the value of skillful play by having the rules mandate that one must begin at a disadvantage in terms of access to legal options/gear/equipment if they don't perform some action for 100s of hours first. Go back and look at any of my examples and I've held true to this statement. The bottom line is, it is STANDARD in competitive activites for the rules to be the same for all sides participating. GW PvP has separated from this fundamental truism found in hundreds of thousands of competitive activities over hundres of years. This is the very area people expect things to be "fair" - the RULES.

What you are pointing out is the SECOND influence on how well one potentially may do going into the match... that person/teams "real life" circumstance. Guess what? Arena.net, just like any other "league" or rule-making body, has no control over your "real life" circumstance. This is what YOU control, and common sense wouldn't have it any other way. Life isn't always fair, but the rules are always to be so. Arena.net doesn't control the effects of our real life... but they control the PvP rules.

In skillful competitive activities, it is understood that you win or lose based on you and your opponent's abilities coming into the match, with NO influence by rules that favor one over the other based on hours spent grinded. You win because of YOU. You lose because of YOU. What shouldn't happen is the outcome being influenced (slight or great) according to mandated rules that create an uneven playing field. I'll use each and every one of your examples:

Michael Jordan - He's the greatest of all time because of HIM. He did not have one advantage/or disadvantage mandated by the NBA rules. Was he FORCED by the rules to start playing with inferior equipment, eventually "earning" (to the leagues's satisfaction) the right to play with top level equipment? No. The rules are blind to the efforts of an individual as they should be. Either you come in prepared based on your OWN life situation or not.

Tiger Woods - Yes, he practiced hard to achieve his greatness.... but was any of his preparation a mandate of the LEAGUE? Was it written in stone (or in GW PvP's case, into the code) that he MUST hit under par 1,000 holes before he can move up from a tin foil club to a quality 1 Iron or 3 Wood? You can't possibly believe this. The rules have no business dictating the quality and availability of legal options/gear/equipment in a way that allows grinders to have more than non-grinders. You want to be the best? Practice, but the rules have NO business strong arming your choices to improve your game.

Lance Armstrong - The GW PvP equivalent to a Lance Armstrong is that because he grinded 1,000 hours in forced laps for the league, he can freely compete with whatever gear, clothes, bike, etc. he wants. Yay Lance. However, he has a competitior who wants to race him. This guy practiced with a buddies bike, so he knows how to ride but he hasn't "Officially" grinded 1,000 hours for the league.

He finally registers, and is ready to race with the big boys and wants a bike for himself. Guess what? the rules state that unless you've grinded your mandated hours, the pickings are slim. As good of a skilled rider as he is, the league forces him to begin on a unicycle. In 100 hours, he can move up to a tricycle. What in the world does league permission to access legal options have to do with the skill of the participant? Either a person can be great with all the options available or he can't -no "league" influence on gear/option access is allowed anywhere except GW PvP. It is 100% anti-competition.

Derek Jeter - Going up against this all-star in a Baseball skills competition... will I lose hard? Likely. Is it because I haven't developed the skillful abilities of the Yankee great? Definately. Can I find a way to come to the competition with the exact same gear/equipment that he has? Absolutely. That is NOT league mandated that I come to the competition with a pair of slippers and a Nerf foam glove while Derek Jeter has a top-tier glove and cleats.

What does that ridiculous scenario, if it were true, have to do with skillful play? Please don't mistake the skills icons in Guild Wars PvP for real skill ability. They are just gear/equipment/etc. just like a bat and glove, options used to get the job done and nothing more. Just because you have more Necro skill icons from grinding more hours, that makes you better than someone who has less icons but more personal ability and aptitude in PvP (i.e. REAL skill)? In any competitive activity, skills has just one meaning - your abilities vs. the abilities of the opponent (with no favoring influence from the rules). Don't confuse GW's terminology with the real deal we are discussing here.

So yes, it may take five years for some of us to be in the top 1% at Guild Wars PvP. There indeed are 100s, even 1000s of hours that must be invested to improve. But, please see the clear difference between hours invested improving one's ability level and spending those hours GRINDING through PvE play-mechanics to unlock gear/options that your PvP opponent may already have. Real skill development has NOTHING to do with 'unlocking' and other PvE play mechanics. Again I say, these two questions illustrate this perfectly. I ask that you answer them as directly and honestly as you can:

------------------------------------------------

The War Machine guild in Korea currently has enough great players to fill three teams on the first page of the official ladder rankings. For purposes of these questions, Let's call them WM A, B, and C. Being from the same guild, having strategized together for all this time, you can't deny that all three are very strong teams.

All things being about equal, with skillful teammates and top level tactics shared by all... which team has the obvious advantage based on hours spent "unlocking" based on Arena.net's current anti-competitive PvP rules?

WM A) Has 10% of all the skills, runes, and top gear to choose from
WM B) Has 50% of all the skills, runes, and top gear to choose from
WM C) Has 100% of all the skills, runes, and top gear to choose from

All things being about equal, with skillful teammates and top level tactics shared by all... which team has the obvious advantage?

WM A) Has 100% of all the skills, runes, and top gear to choose from
WM B) Has 100% of all the skills, runes, and top gear to choose from
WM C) Has 100% of all the skills, runes, and top gear to choose from
-- or --
D) We find out on the field of battle.
--------------------------------------------------------

Paladin_Adoni · Jul 18, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Im into the pretty, the shiny, and the darn right cool looking.

I am still using my first character that I first created when I baught the game, that was a LONG time ago now. for nearly 3 months I've been searching and farming my ass off for a max damage sickle axe. stupid really, its the same as all the other axes, just looks different. I've never got one. and it seems that nobody else has got one either. its like ArenaNet is trying to drive me insane with these weapons that never come out as max :P

SOT · Jul 18, 2005, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin_Adoni

Im into the pretty, the shiny, and the darn right cool looking.

I am still using my first character that I first created when I baught the game, that was a LONG time ago now. for nearly 3 months I've been searching and farming my ass off for a max damage sickle axe. stupid really, its the same as all the other axes, just looks different. I've never got one. and it seems that nobody else has got one either. its like ArenaNet is trying to drive me insane with these weapons that never come out as max :P

You are, quite literally, me.

Xoduz · Jul 18, 2005, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by arredondo

The bottom line is, it is STANDARD in competitive activites for the rules to be the same for all sides participating. GW PvP has separated from this fundamental truism found in hundreds of thousands of competitive activities over hundres of years. This is the very area people expect things to be "fair" - the RULES.

Tell me, what GW rule is not the same for all sides participating?

None. All the rules are the same for everyone.
Rule 1 : Everyone starts a 0 skills
Rule 2 : Everyone has the opportunity for all the skills
Rule 3 : Everyone must only use 8 skills at a time

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrendono

In skillful competitive activities, it is understood that you win or lose based on you and your opponent's abilities coming into the match, with NO influence by rules that favor one over the other based on hours spent grinded.

It's comments like this that make me wonder if where your making this stuff up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrendono

He finally registers, and is ready to race with the big boys and wants a bike for himself. Guess what? the rules state that unless you've grinded your mandated hours, the pickings are slim. As good of a skilled rider as he is, the league forces him to begin on a unicycle.

GW gives you premade bikes, just as good as any other bike (read : build).

If you want a bike (read : build) that is different, guess what : you gotta buy it.

Besides, do you think anyone cried tears because Lance didn't have EVERY state of the art bike before he became big? Guess what, most people had to prove they are better with less equipment before getting any respect.

That is called Life

Makkert · Jul 18, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

We don't have an official forum. Don't worry, we do read many forums, every day. Including this one.

Taken in context, I stand by my answer. There are many different levels of this discussion. One is "drops" and one is "uber drops of godly stuff." We'll be addressing both, in good time.

i wish the words 'uber' and 'godly' could be banned.
both are out of context in this game, there is no 'uber item' or a thing that makes you 'godly'. Players even seem to call weapons that are not max damage 'godly'. beats me why.

/begs for a censor extenstion for the words 'godly', 'uber', 'leet' and 'l33t'.

arredondo · Jul 18, 2005, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Tell me, what GW rule is not the same for all sides participating?

None. All the rules are the same for everyone.
Rule 1 : Everyone starts a 0 skills
Rule 2 : Everyone has the opportunity for all the skills
Rule 3 : Everyone must only use 8 skills at a time

Before a competitive match (unlike any other competitive activity):

Rule 4 : If one side declined to "jump through hoops" for 100s of hours like the other side did, the rules force that side to play with hundreds of less gear/skill icons regardless of their true ability level. They are thereby operating under a mandated, rule enforced disadvantage based on the "league's" influence.

Quote:

It's comments like this that make me wonder if where your making this stuff up?

I can't possibly make up the fundamental rules for thousands of competitive games and activites over the course of hundreds of years. They all have one thing in common that GW PvP does not: rules that are fair to both sides in accessing legal gear/equipment/options regardless of hours grinded.

If you want to play, you need only bring your personal skillful abilitiies. In GW PvP, if you want to play, you must first play pvE play mechanics for hundreds of hours to open up all legal options, only then can two sides truly be "equal" at the starting line. Which brings us to the two questions that test your intellectual honesty. I still wait for you to directly answer without dodging the issue please:

----------------------------------------------------------
The War Machine guild in Korea currently has enough great players to fill three teams on the first page of the official ladder rankings. For purposes of these questions, Let's call them WM A, B, and C. Being from the same guild, having strategized together for all this time, you can't deny that all three are very strong teams.

All things being about equal, with skillful teammates and top level tactics shared by all... which team has the obvious advantage based on hours spent "unlocking" based on Arena.net's current anti-competitive PvP rules?

WM A) Has 10% of all the skills, runes, and top gear to choose from
WM B) Has 50% of all the skills, runes, and top gear to choose from
WM C) Has 100% of all the skills, runes, and top gear to choose from

All things being about equal, with skillful teammates and top level tactics shared by all... which team has the obvious advantage?

WM A) Has 100% of all the skills, runes, and top gear to choose from
WM B) Has 100% of all the skills, runes, and top gear to choose from
WM C) Has 100% of all the skills, runes, and top gear to choose from
-- or --
D) We find out on the field of battle.
----------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

GW gives you premade bikes, just as good as any other bike (read : build).

If you want a bike (read : build) that is different, guess what : you gotta buy it.

Besides, do you think anyone cried tears because Lance didn't have EVERY state of the art bike before he became big? Guess what, most people had to prove they are better with less equipment before getting any respect.

That is called Life

Guild Wars "gives you" is like saying the league "gives you". The rules of every other competitive activity assumes all participants can use what is legally allowed. Period. Guild Wars PvP, based on its rules, doles out what the "league" feels you've earned. Not ONE BIKE that Lance has ridden he received based on what the "league" decided he has earned. For a video game, all stuff is found in-game (therefore technically coming from "the company") , but again like in all competitive activities, options/gear access is equal to all without forced PvE mechanics that create an artificial imbalance that has nothing to do with true skill.

Yes, he may have had pitiful bikes in the past, but that's HIS responsibility to take care of (i.e. real life), not the role of the rule makers to give and take to all competitiors based on hours grinded. The league sets up a fair structure, regardless of who's participating, then butts out. Except in GW PvP. Real life is our responsibility to deal with. The rules of Guild Wars PvP, in designing a rule set that favors no one based on hours grinded, is the responsbility of Arena.net.

I'll handle issues of my ability to succeed based on my own efforts in dealing with life. I'll be responsible for bringing my skillful abilities to the playfield. I shouldn't have the rules singling me out to give me arbitrary advantages or forcing me into disadvantages based on my hours (or lack thereof) pleasing them with PvE play mechanics.

Again, you may like the current structure with its built-in favortism for competion influenced by things not related purely to the skillful abilities of the participants, but don't try to say that this situation does not factually exist.

Paladin_Adoni · Jul 18, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

wtf, i repeat WTF does all that nonsensicle wah wah bullsh1t have to do with the statement from Gaile? nothing, so take it elsewhere

Maiyn · Jul 18, 2005, 08:04 AM // 08:04

I freakin love this game. Anet can do no wrong in my eyes. Nerf whatever drops.. I do not care.. because for me. The challenge is all that matters.. and that's what I've loved about this game since the start.

The challenge is what makes it so fun for me. It's not easy to pvp, pve, farm or find your "PERFECT" weapon. If it was easy.. I wouldn't be playing anymore.

The fact that the game is tough, RIDICULOUSLY customizable with endless character skill modification, and that it's constantly changing has really led me to believe this IS the BEST game for me.

I want to thank everyone at anet. You guys are doing a marvelous job. I don't think I've ever saved so much money in my life! I'm not going out as much or buying anything really because I play this game with my fiance and my friends quite often.

Sure made my summer worthwhile

I dunno about when school starts again

Then I may be cursing anet for my process addiction

Kudos!

Xoduz · Jul 18, 2005, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by arredondo

Rule 4 : If one side declined to "jump through hoops" for 100s of hours like the other side did, the rules force that side to play with hundreds of less gear/skill icons regardless of their true ability level. They are thereby operating under a mandated, rule enforced disadvantage based on the "league's" influence.

First off, that is absolutely incorrect in terms of gear. At anytime you can create a customized character or premade with all gear avaliable to you.

Second, statements like "force that side to play with hundreds of less skill icons" are equally as incorrect, because Rule 3 clearly states that only 8 may be used at any given time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arredondo

The War Machine guild in Korea currently has enough great players to fill three teams on the first page of the official ladder rankings.

All things being about equal, with skillful teammates and top level tactics shared by all... which team has the obvious advantage based on hours spent "unlocking" based on Arena.net's current anti-competitive PvP rules?

No one has any advantage, and A.net has already proved that. Link

The Dev's were undefeated using mostly premade characters in the Own the Dev's contest. If premade's weren't competative, they would have been easily beaten. Therefore, you are wrong.

Kali Ma · Jul 18, 2005, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Gaile Gray
It's not "uber items," so much as "ultra cool and rare and wonderful" items, for many of us.

For me, it's not really either... I'd just like a better chance of finding the items that are currently in the game by playing the PvE game normally, rather than having to buy them from other players.

Except for runes, almost every item/upgrade I've used for any length of time has been something I bought from someone else. In almost 500 hours of total playing time, there have been only 2 drops that I've actually equipped: a +5 armor wrapping and +27 hale staff head that I salvaged out of other items, and I was tempted to sell them because it's so hard to make gold.

I also wish that the traders would buy/sell materials, runes and dyes for reasonable prices. The current system, however well intentioned, simply doesn't work for those playing the game normally, and favors those who have collected tons of gold from farming or from buying it from a third party out of game.

I used to dream of eventually getting an all black+silver set of armor one day.... in the last week that goal became completely hopeless. If the prices stay as they are, we're talking over 60k just to color one's armor black+silver. I can't even imagine having 60k, let alone spending it on dye.

I check the traders' buy prices for materials and dyes several times each playing session, and have never once seen them offer this theoretical 80% of the sell price for anything. Most of the time it's around 10% or less, and we're lucky if it spikes over 25% of the sell price.

There's basically no point in using an Expert Salvage Kit anymore, since the merchant offers considerably more gold for the unsalvaged item than the traders do for the materials and upgrades. And players hardly buy anything that isn't the absolute best version of an upgrade or a "godly" rare item.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gaile Gray
How many players are considering the item issue from the viewpoint of "coolness" and "uniqueness" rather than pure functional advantages?

If I had to choose one or the other, I'd say pure functional advantage is more important. I'm looking for items and upgrades that go well with my character build, rather than just being super cool looking. That's why I use a 12/20/20 collector staff I bought from another player, along with the two upgrades I mentioned earlier. Imho, items like the chaos axe or eternal shield look kinda silly, and something like a "rose-shaped" sword would be ridiculous.

But what's the point of adding more unique items if one's chances of actually affording or finding those items are next to zero if they play through the game normally without farming or buying from a third party who does? The problem isn't the type of items, it's the scarcity and ridiculously high costs associated with obtaining current items through normal gameplay.

Borealis · Jul 18, 2005, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Heres one thing I've been wondering, why is it that a falchion, tribal blade and whatever the other one are all have the same skin? Off topic? Yes, but....so what?

Kali Ma · Jul 18, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Xoduz and Arredondo...

Please don't derail this thread.

Arredondo, I agree with your points... always have. But please, we don't need this thread to become another "the meaning of competition" or a "GW vs. Sports" comparison. Please...

arredondo · Jul 18, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

A fair request. I jumped right to the end of the thread since my last post, so I won't bother to read anything afterwards to not be tempted to respond.

Drakron · Jul 19, 2005, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Well Kali Ma, the problem is that Guild Wars really does not give much customization options were the player have control over.

15k armor is a gold sink, like fissure and that remains the problem, the only true gold sinks are at near end game and are over priced, if we had weapon/shield/focus item customization we would feel more unique.

What Arena Net did with how they handled 15K and weapon designs was raising grind and farm, people will not bother to customize their characters at all until they reach the ultimate armor and maxed weapos, then they will grind and farm so they buy then or find then.

Kali Ma · Jul 19, 2005, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakron

...people will not bother to customize their characters at all until they reach the ultimate armor and maxed weapos, then they will grind and farm so they buy then or find then.

At first I used to customize every weapon I got, and did the normal armor upgrading process with collecting materials, new runes and dyes, and it worked just fine up until a certain point where my gold intake wasn't increasing proportionally to my output for materials and armor. I'm one of those who had to reluctantly get into low-level farming just to keep progressing, as normal rewards and drops weren't cutting it.

Nowadays I don't customize weapons even if they are something I want to carry simply because I might need to sell them for gold at some point. The costs assosciated with crafting materials and dyes keeps increasing as my need for more of them increases; yet the gold I am able to make through normal questing and mission drops doesn't increase proportionally, or even remotely close, to keep up. It's frustrating... and shouldn't be, because it's a game that is supposed to be fun, not work.

Gardavil · Jul 19, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

ah shucks ... nevermind...

Thank you Gaile very much

Da Outlaw · Jul 19, 2005, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Things I want to see changed as far as drops go, hope you got plenty of reading time...

1. More purple/rare items. Give us a better chance of finding good items.

2. Preferrably all weapons past ascension should be max damage, or very close to it. If they aren't max damage, I prefer these to be the blue precious/highly salvageable type.

3. Fix Underworld. The drops are very poor, it's difficult to find max damage weapons, and ecto is extremely scarce. I know it is easily farmed (which I assume is why the dropsare so poor, to prevent major farming), but it is a fun area to go run around in and get experience for skill points, as well as hope for some good rare weapons.

4. All weapons in the game should be available with max damage, and mods. There are many cool weapons that you can only find with low stats, but I'd love to wield as my main weapon. One that comes to mind is the White Skythe. I have yet to find one that is max damamge or better then blue, in the hundreds of hours I've played. This would improve the fun of loot drops, as there will be more variety in what weapon drops.

5. Let us have the +20% mods that you see on collector staffs, available on staff drops in loot. Currently you don't get any 20% divine favor/domination/etc unless you go get a collector item. These stats should be in drop loot as well.

6. I like the idea of collectors, I'd like to see mroe of them added, maybe more rare items we haven't seen before.

7. As mentioned in other replies, give us quests to earn rare, or unique style weapons. Let us be rewarded for doing a quest with a cool loot drop, which can be random, but promise a purple/rare. RIght now, in current quests you know you are gonna be rewared with some exp, and some lame weapon. Instead, give us the exp, but also maybe put a chest that falls out when the boss of the quest dies, and let it be random purple/rare items for those who killed the boss. Since you use an isntance system, you have no worries of this chest being exploited since you will have to have the quest active, and must defeat the boss to get the loot, and once the boss is dead, the quest updates to prevent you from zoning out and trying again.

I am glad you are listening Gaile, and I hope some of the issues of weapons and lack of uniqueness can be solved. It will make a more fun end-game overall, and will keep us coming back for more. The addition of more fun gold sinks can help, too, which I hope are being considered. I have 15k armor, and have owned just about every weapon in the game at some point (Ghostly staff and eternal items still elude me). I don't have anythnig to spend money on, and I used up all my skill points, so I have to grind a lot to get another skill point to use on my main, which is my favorite character to use overall (Mesmer).

Notice I said nothing about adding "uber death sword of oblivion", all I want is new weapon art, more customization to weapons, easier to find rares, and eventually would like to see gold sinks and quests to find more cool stuff. One cool thought was to have a quest from a collector out in Timbucktoo, that once completed, he will open up his collection of rare items (weapons or a new armor set), that can be purchased or collected. You can make the collection part take a lot of effort, without forcing us to gridn to death like we have to, to get ecto.

Speaking of ecto... ahh, you know our concerns with the difficulty of finding it... I've said enough. Hope you enjoy the feedback Gaile and Anet!

Paladin_Adoni · Jul 19, 2005, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Outlaw

4. All weapons in the game should be available with max damage, and mods. There are many cool weapons that you can only find with low stats, but I'd love to wield as my main weapon. One that comes to mind is the White Skythe. I have yet to find one that is max damamge or better then blue, in the hundreds of hours I've played. This would improve the fun of loot drops, as there will be more variety in what weapon drops.

amen to that!

I am still looking for a max damage sickle axe!! oh why do you taunt me so Arena Net